John has a riveting conversation this week with John Rivers, founder of 4 Rivers Smokehouse and 4 Rivers Farm. Together, they explore the ‘big yes’, and stepping into purpose with our work. John has gone from a healthcare executive with a passion for barbecue, to a serial entrepreneur taking on some of the most salient and complex issues in our society today. But he’s not done yet, John is stepping out on faith again, and is knee deep in a $65mm vision to redeem farming, connect cities back to the land, and fight hunger. You do not want to miss this one.

• John Marsh (00:58): in 2009, he created his first concept Four Rivers Smokehouse and quickly became one of the fastest growing restaurants in the southeast. He’s got a nonviolent revolution going on through changing the world through purpose and barbecue.
• John Marsh (01:17): I can get someone to go to the worst neighborhood in town for good barbecue
• John Rivers (01:59): Healthcare was a great blessing and it was 20 years career that I had in it. But before I even started going into healthcare, I love cooking and I always tell people that God gives us a special gift and a special talent when we are kids…And then he uses something to wake you up and to kind of remind you.
• John Rivers (04:36): When you start doing your passion, okay, you’re calling what God made you to do and you align that to your work, your occupation, to your efforts, and you’re doing it to help other people, man, you line those three things up and life takes on a whole different meaning
• John Marsh (05:02): I love the seed analogy because God puts all the power in the seed to accomplish what he wanted it to do. And so you see seeds that came into barbecue and you see seeds that are working through other pieces of your life.
• John Rivers (06:01): when God speaks to you, he moves your heart. And our job is to say yes. Okay? And the scary part about that is not knowing really what you’re saying yes to,
• John Marsh (07:39): the restaurant business, we say it’s, it’s entertainment, it’s wholesale, it’s retail, it’s manufacturing, and it’s daycare all under one roof
• John Rivers (08:28): God has put you where you’re supposed to be in order to touch the people that are around you that he puts in your path, whether they’re sitting in the cubicle next to you or whether they’re in an auditorium over in Greece or in Russia or something, talking to them. And quite honestly, I would contend it’s scarier for people to talk to the person in the cubicle next to them about God than it is a complete stranger in a different country. 
• John Rivers (10:02): You’re going to grow by making mistakes. Make a mistake on a smaller foundation and learn that same lesson for a lot less money heartache than you do paying for. Don’t overpay for lessons,
• John Rivers (12:24): The person I was Monday through Friday became very different from the person I was on the weekends. But Monday through Friday was, it became a job and I had to do it. And the weekends my spirit would come alive. And that disparity between those two people was too much for me to say, I can’t live. I need to go where my heart is. So the point being, it wasn’t overnight, I’m leaving my job, I’m going to do this right. It was a slow progression that God moved me along and started to show me and hone me in to what the plan that he had for me. 
• John Marsh (13:41): what got us going. Don’t keep us growing
• John Marsh (13:58): want what I’m doing to have the flavor and passion of God’s thing
• John Rivers (19:09): When you come to the terms of understanding and acceptance that everything happens for the reason and the reason for God, you walk into challenging situations with a completely different perspective. And that change in perspective to me is as little as a say. Instead of saying to God, why is this happening to me asking the question, what are you trying to show me? Change your perspective. It’s amazing how things will change in that environment and then change in your life.
• John Marsh (20:29): when I spend time with somebody pretty soon, I don’t know what’s them and me. It’s just all Brunswick stew of sharing good words together 
• John Marsh (24:36): faith is like a muscle. As I’ve learned more about exercise, time under tension is the only language it knows.
• John Rivers (29:15): success breeds growth, more success, but it also can and breeds a lot of temptation of making terrible mistakes. And I learned that some of the most important things to that we have to stay disciplined around is not necessarily our to-do list, but it’s our to don’t list
• John Rivers (31:05): a lot of the last three years in particular of my leadership efforts have been investing in the team to give them a voice, to get them to stand up and express their opinions. And especially, and I put it from a perspective, you’re doing it out of love. You’re not doing it out of disrespect
• John Marsh (33:52): Do you compel or beg your team to give you wisdom when they do feel like it’s kind of speaking against the person that’s been instrumental in dreaming stuff and all that, how do you invite ’em in? How do you compel?
• John Rivers (34:08): Well, first of all, one-on-one. You give ’em permission. Okay, not in front of everybody else. Two is you not just give ’em permission, but you implore them of how you need it. Depend on them. Now that doesn’t mean they’re going to be a superman the next day and be able to do that. Then you give ’em small. It’s just like working that muscle, building up for that race. Throw something out at a meeting that’s low hanging fruit. What do you guys think? If we did this?`
• John Rivers (35:22): when you put a problem or a challenge or question out there, resist the urge to answer it. When you see the path, you know want to bring them along. What’s that saying? If you make a decision for me but you don’t include me, then you make it happen to me.
• John Rivers (39:56): if we’re going to keep our mission and the center of our business and the business keeps growing, shouldn’t the mission keep growing with it?
• John Rivers (41:01): If God had shown me back then, Hey John, I want you to build a 65 million farm campus and feed millions of people a year and teach people about regenerative farming, I would’ve asked two question, what is regenerative farming? What am I going to get? 65 million?
• John Rivers (42:13): as a country, we are handing out more food than we ever have before, but the number of missed meals and the number of people that are hungry is at an all time high. And that’s not the solution. So you keep digging, okay, well do people understand about where food’s coming from? And truth matter is little Jamal and Jimmy and Tina who lives downtown, they don’t know tomatoes come from the ground. And how are we supposed to expect them to understand and appreciate and care about the food that’s going in their body and the gift that God gave us in this beautiful soil, in this beautiful planet and our responsibility handed down to us by God to take care of the land, they’re never going to appreciate that because they don’t know that there’s any value in the soil, in the land itself. And then we’ve got all of our farmers who are producing all this beautiful food, but in the state of Florida, we got almost 1 billion pounds of produce that goes to waste on the fields.
• John Marsh (45:55): being a former addict, drug addict and helping drug addicts, I feel like you invest in 500 or 1,001, make it. That’s how it feels sometimes. And what I prayed about it and I just said, but you know what, if you’re the one, it’s a hundred percent success.

• Connect and learn more about what we do at  https://www.marshcollective.com/
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• John Rivers – LinkedIn
• John Rivers – 4R Restaurant Group 
• 4Rivers Smokehouse – website
• 4Roots Farm – website

What have you read that we should read?

• John Rivers (51:11): I’m a consummate reader, so I’m, I’m reading some Wendell Berry right now. Unless you’re into regenerative farming, it could be incredibly dry, not so exciting. But one of my favorite books and relevant to today’s conversation is a writer named Mark Batterson, who I love what he writes and one of the most pivotal influential ones on me. And this journey of faith and courage and a little craziness all combined. One of his first books is called In the Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day. And it is a super easy read and just it’ll hit on so many engines and fire them up on you. And it’s taken from one line, I think out of Kings and just how Benaiah who was David’s head of his army, jumped in a pit with a lion on a snowy day. And he talks about the lion as being that big challenge. He didn’t walk away from it when the lion fell in the pit. He actually went after it. He takes that one passage, it’s that one line, and he draws it into your life of how God puts these ostentatious big fairy audacious goals in front of you. But he is also giving you the courage and the ability to go after him and get ’em. Such a fantastic book and just a great, great writer.
• Wendell Berry – author
• In the Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day by Mark Batterson

Who do you know that we should know?

• John Rivers (48:47): …there’s so many people that are doing things and I know this one is probably a low hanging fruit and cliche, but just last week, one of my favorite people and mentors is actually Dan Cathy over at Chick-fil-A. And they do a lot of things behind the scenes that just we don’t hear. But I got to listen to him speak to a group of young employees that he had. He was so kind to invite me just to come and be a fly on the wall and listen. And I think I took more notes than they did, but if you ever have a chance to hear him speak about leadership and education and stuff, it’s something to take a look into. And the course your company does a ton of stuff. But man, I was just so moved that one of the most successful chairmans and CEOs that are out there has taken the time to pour to their employees and their team members. And just the message that he had was really, really inspirational.
• Dan Cathy

Where have you been that we should go?

• John Rivers (50:05): Well, one, we love to travel around. That’s one of Monica and I’s touchpoints and one of the most meaningful trips. And it was funny, we went over for work before we bought this hydroponic system in Israel. I said, I want to go see it and put my hands on it. But that trip to Jerusalem, went to Israel, just have dinner on the river, the Jordan River, and be able to just go to places that are so biblically special and to experience that was probably one of the most meaningful trips we’ve ever had. That’s something I highly recommend to people.
• Israel – travel site